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April 5, 2011
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I have created a small animated clip about sexual exploitation of nude models. Follow this link to watch it on youtube:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLQBAO…

Your feedback and comments are very welcome!

Stefan Grosjean
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:iconmyztrist:
myztrist Mar 31, 2012  Hobbyist Photographer
completely agree with you. It is that attitude that starts the ball rolling.
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:iconrumikoholic:
I'm not demeaning the women at all. I'm saying they are often misinformed as to what their role is, especially when it comes to nude modelling. there is a kind of fantasy that goes with this sort of thing. You have no idea until you've been there. The photographer tells you all kinds of things. Like how liberating it can be. How you should embrace your sexuality. How it's a key part of human nature and you shouldn't be ashamed. They say whatever they have to say to get your clothes off. I know.

The fact he claims these employers are sexually exploiting women by firing them is a serious charge. There is nothing sexually exploitative about firing a person because they took nude photographs and had them posted all over the internet. If the employer then forced these models to perform sexual acts with with either themselves or potential clients in order to remain employed, then it would be sexual exploitation.

Scouting young women and paying them money to model for him for the express purpose of turning them into objects of lust for his fanbase is a form of sexual exploitation. You can't possibly tell me that every single one of these models came to him begging him to take naked pictures of them. He states quite adamantly that these women perform a service by being sexual objects for men. Does he tell them that before they sign any papers, or agree to model for him? Of course, not. Not all of the women who do this kind of thing mind. But some of them do. Most of them have no idea what they're getting themselves into when they pose for these pictures. They assume it's easy money. That no one will ever see them. They don't understand what the repercussions will be until it's too late. If they came to him and asked him to take them down, do you think he would? Of course, not. He paid them for a service. He treats them like virtual whores. That's the truth. If you don't believe me, watch his video and read his responses to other people.
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:iconthewiseweirdprophet:
TheWiseWeirdProphet Mar 31, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
let me start of by saying that I was going to leave this alone, but then I read it again and I can't help but point out something..

1) you don't know if I've been there or not

2)then you both are claiming something which can be considered a serious charge, you say he is exploiting them, he says they are exploiting them.

3) Some see this as art, whether you can understand that or not, not everyone see this as porn. This can be evidenced by the fact that there are numerous female art appreciaters buying and watching the art, sometimes even creating it themselves. (Scroll downside and you'll see Rockstarvanity)

4)It isn't exploitation, they get paid for a service they agreed upon, probably signed papers for too and I assume are of legal age... none of this reads sexual exploitation, the models should be able to decide for themselves whether they want to do this and what the consequences are. If they do not know this, you can't blaim someone else for anothers stupidity/naivity/ignorance. Also ''You can't possibly tell me that every single one of these models came to him begging him to take naked pictures of them.'' I said no such thing.

5) again you say most of them, you don't know that, you haven't met ''most of them''. If you know ''some of them'' who do mind, don't project their experiences (or yours if that's the case) on all the others... not everyone has the same experiences.

6) (''He states quite adamantly'' )haven't seen that statement in regards to his own work, link me to where you see this, otherwise Ill assume this is another assumption you made.

7) You don't know if he tells them that or not before they sign any papers or agree to model before him, another assumption.

8) you don't know if they don't know where they get in to, nor do you know if they assume it's easy money or that no one will ever see them. You don't know if they don't know what the repercussions are.

9) If they signed or consented into taking the pictures he has no legal obligation to remove them if they ask. Unless did so under false pretenses. He paid them for a service, if someone does a commercial add and signed papers for it, the commercial won't be taken down either.

10) That he treats them like virtual whores is not a truth, it's your (flawed) opinion (Dictionary.com [link] disagrees with you). Infact the only one who called them that yet is you. I have seen the video and did not see any responses made by him except for the one where he says which program he used.

11) Your whole post consist of assumptions, it could be that you (or someone close) experienced exploitation and I am sorry if that's the case. Still it doesn't mean that every photographer is out to do the same thing, nor that every model experiences and feels the same way.

PLEASE ESPECIALLY READ THIS:
In the future, I'd encourage you to seek facts and evidence to strengthen your argument, so it's a viable one, and you are not simply attacking someone for something they may or may not have done. I don't take lightly to stuff like that becuase it has caused great suffering in the world. Corrupt justice systems sending innocent people to jail or to their deaths, so-called facts which are not really facts that caused suffering in the forms of lobotomy or the Jew prosecution in WW2.

There many more examples, but I think I explained the seriousness of this and hope you understand.

I really hope you understand,

kind regards,

Soulsaint The Wise Weird Prophet
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:iconaren-kitsune:
Aren-Kitsune Apr 19, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Very well put sir... I was going to say something to this person, but I think you've said everything I could hope to X)

Although, I don't think using the Holocaust as an example here was the best idea, but I do understand what you're getting at with it. But it wasn't so much made-up facts that led to it. I think it was more jealousy. No Jew (I may be wrong, but if there were, I think they were few and far between) was living on the streets, most -- if not all -- bank owners in Germany were Jewish (again, might be wrong on that one), and this lead to a deep-seated jealousy of them, which was easy for someone to exploit.

... Ironically, I think that little off-topic last paragraph of mine actually brings up a relevant point. It would honestly not surprise me in the slightest if ~rumikoholic, and many of those who are so against erotic art that they feel the need to constantly battle it, are actually just jealous of the models, because these 'haters' if you will, are not as comfortable with themselves to do the same thing.
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:iconthewiseweirdprophet:
TheWiseWeirdProphet Apr 19, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Actually alot of info spread about Jews at the time (Anti jew propaganda) was made up, They blamed them for all the problems germany was in.


regardless thanks for backing me up on the matter :)
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:iconaren-kitsune:
Aren-Kitsune Apr 21, 2012  Hobbyist General Artist
Oh yeah, of course, but I don't think that was the sole reason for their persecution, just a part of it and a way to spread it.

Not a problem. Some people's opinions and arguments just, well... Have to be shut down
Reply
:iconnomadderthanyou:
NoMadderThanYou Dec 24, 2012   Photographer
Even though some of you have valid points (not the 'feminists', god no), none of you have seemed to consider the fact that tons of his models are well-known, professional nude (/ fetish) models. These are women who have been working in the industry, for fun, for years now. And some of you dare to claim they are being exploited? Since when is doing what you like (and getting paid for it) called exploitation? Since when can a woman not simply do what she wants, without being labelled as a poor young woman who should be protected from herself? I don't know, but that sounds a lot more offensive than what you are accusing this artist of.

Long story short, most of you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. Also, in this modern day and age of internet, smartphones and whatnot, even beginning models need less and less protection from 'perverts' or fake photographers who will try to exploit them, since word travels fast and references can easily be found. What these women need protection from is people like you lot, who claim to want nothing but the utmost freedom for every human being, but are simply saying so to cover up the fact that they're the most self-centered assholes on the planet. Total freedom comes at a cost, one mans freedom can take away that of another. That's why we all live by rules based upon consensus. We don't print pornography in children's magazines just like we don't print biblical quotes on our tax papers. Everything has an allotted place, so that almost everyone can enjoy more or less equal amounts of freedom.

So shut up you fucking hypocrites.
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(1 Reply)
:iconstone-sorceress:
Stone-Sorceress Mar 26, 2012
good to have a voice on our side!
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:iconathrian:
Great Video.
I think it`s silly how some people can see models on pictures.
Like ... dude, this are in 99% cute, nice, and really funny girls ... not only nice body.
And I also have some female friends that pose to nude pictures, for me it`s no problem,
but a lot of people think, that if someone show body on pictures that make them slutty or sth.
Like ... as a guy i can be tagged on facebook in photos from parties, when i give lecture on university, when i take pictures of girls, and so on ... and nobody tells me anything about it. But probably if girl would have naked picture somewhere on web, she would be fired from certain jobs ... and yes, I agree that if you own company then you can do there whatever you think profit you most ... but people should be more open minded. If You pose to nude pictures that only means, that you like your body ... but that dosent`t mean, that you can`t be in the same time a great teacher, or amazing bussines manager ;-) Some teachers that i saw in my life (and i saw a lot) ... dude, in one moment i would change them for a nude model with better knowledge in subject that they should teach, becouse kids as far as i know shouldn`t watch pictures of naked people (in DA nude categories afaik is 18+), but for sure they should have teachers that know what they do ;-)
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:iconalexandergras:
First off, I believe that erotic models should be treated with the same respect that we offer everybody else.

That said, I also believe that a nude model must offer the same respect to the people who dislike commercial nudity.

Stefan seems to imply that modelling nude is a job like baking bread. It is not, for the simple reason that there is no taboo on bread, but there is one on nudity. You can now get all upset and scream that there must not be a taboo on nudity, that nudity is "natural" (whatever natural means for people that consider themselves to be not animals), etc. The fact remains, and you cannot deny this simple truth, that no-one objects to bread while nudity is offensive to a large percentage of people in our culture.

Can you treat these people with the same respect that you expect them to extend towards you? Can you accept that they believe, from the depth of their hearts, that nudity is evil?

Because, as soon as you ridicule these beliefs and those people, you have lost your own right to be treated respectfully.

Now, if your mind is capable of logic thinking and you have followed my argument to this point, from the respect that the nude model must extend to her employee and his opinion of nudity and nude imagery if she expects his respect towards herself, follows that she also must respect his wish not to work with her.

There are certain standards that someone working at a certain job has to fulfill. I am heavily tattooed, but I am perfectly in harmony with the fact that I cannot work at a bank counter with these markings. And not because I don't want that job anyway, but because I respect -- and respect has to go both ways! --, I respect that the owner of the bank has formulated for himself what his company stands for, and it is self-evident for me that everybody working in his company must stand behind this concept. You may dislike what banks stand for and how they operate, but just as the bank owner has to respect a nude model, a nude model has to respect the bank owner. And that means, that she must accept her dismissal, if it is communicated in a civilised manner and comes with terms that are humane.

Nude models that have been dismissed from jobs have all (to my knowledge) held jobs that are part of the public face of a company or where the nude model works with children. The company owner has the right to decide what the face of his company should look like and of course parents have the right to expect the teachers of their children to represent the values that they want to communicate to them. No-one has the right to aks parents to accept a teacher that they don't want for their children. And the reasons don't matter. They are the parent's children, not the theacher's.

I am often deeply troubled by the double standards that people enjoying nude photography have. They demand respect, but they are unable to grant it themselves.
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